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Forum: Bhelen or Harrowmont

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There have been similar discussions before but I find it an interesting question (probably one of the hardest in the game so far). I myself am a Harrowmont supporter, mostly because I find Bhelen such a lying, backstabbing person that I really do not want to see him on the throne, and on a related question, what would you do with the anvil of the void? Caspoi (talk) 00:45, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

P.S. And I chose to destroy the anvil. Caspoi (talk) 02:00, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

Well ... my first play-through was without using any guides, etc. Went with Harrowmont, based on personality. Saw the epilogue slide and regretted it. Been Bhelen every play-through since. He may be an ass, but he's better for Orzammar.
As for the anvil, destroyed every time. AugustusC (talk) 02:25, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
Well I had played may human noble origin first but I didn't know who was lying to me about what happened with king Enderin I played the dwarf noble origin and for a while afterwards (years) I held a grudge against Bhelen so I always went with Harrowmont but about a year maybe a year and a half I started going with Bhelen because unfortunately he's the one who doesn't leave Orzammar to die in a hole against the Darkspawn he's a forward thinker an ass yes but he makes Orzammar a better place --WardenMaster (talk) 02:39, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
He did remove the little democracy it had though ... Orzammar is doomed either way if you ask me. There needs to be a really major event (probably in a later game) that completely eradicates the darkspawn or something. Orzammar does become stronger under his rule though, that is true. My greatest problem with Harrowmont is the fact that he goes and dies anyway (if you did not keep the anvil that is) and makes much of your endavour come for naught. Caspoi (talk) 02:56, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
I find the series to be interesting, but I do think that they could've planned things more better just as they should have for Mass Effect. I've got a blog under my old name Mike Gilbert, if you want to see my thoughts .-- Observer Supreme 03:06, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
Personally, I first chose Harrowmont, started the Chantry in Orzammar, and recruited the Dwarf woman to the Circle Tower .. but after reading the Epilogue, every game afterward I chose Bhelen and ignored the Chantry Dwarf and the Dwarf Woman, and reflected those choices in the Dragon Age Keep when I got into the beta. Eligerath (talk) 12:11, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
Bukler and Dagna only worsens the relationship between the chantry and Orzammar (and kill poor brother Bukler), this "the divine contemplates an exalted march" thing is just a rumor that does not bear any fruit. Caspoi (talk) 13:53, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
I preserved the Anvil. I wasn't happy about it, still aren't. But I still think the lives saved by keeping makes it the right call even if it isn't the morally correct one. I also sided with Bhelen. Thats because I went with a Dwarf Commoner Warden though. Admittedly he's a terrible person, but Orzammar is stronger, safer and more prosper under his reign. Even the casteless are better off. Harrowmont in contrast keeps his wealthy friends comfortable and badly undermines Orzammar's capacity to defend itself, its trade and lets not forget, wipes out dust town with golems. Child king my ass.

- (talk) 13:22, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

Admittedly there was a big rebellion there, the same rebellion that kills him unless you get him golems. And Bhelen does not really make the casteless better of, not if you gave him golems because then he will "conscript" casteless into those metal giants. Caspoi (talk) 13:53, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
So what? You're saying that the big rebellion which threatens Harrowmont is formed entirely of the poor and the destitude? Not the powerful nobles with all the soldiers? And that wiping out the slums puts down said ñobles' rebellion?

Also from the epilogue and I quote If Bhelen becomes King: "Trade with the surface lands increased and caste restrictions were loosened. The casteless were permitted to take arms against the darkspawn in exchange for new freedoms" Thats the biggest improvement to the casteless' lot in hundreds of years. As for the golems, while I am sure that some casteless probably wound up as Golems I should point out that it does not say that Bhelen "conscripted the casteless into those metal giants" it just says that "At first, King Bhelen worked eagerly with Branka to provide subjects - willing or not - so that the golems could push the darkspawn back. " At no point does it say that said subjects were exclusively the casteless. If anything I'd say that its more likely that Bhelen used his political opponents to forget the new golems. Which is at best a small step above Harrowmont having his political opponents killed by said golems. - (talk) 14:00, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

If we are to quote the epilogue: “After a law excluding the casteless from common areas of the city was passed, a rebellion saw the slums reduced practically to rubble. Although outrage was widespread, the Assembly remained united behind King Harrowmont. " It indicated that the rebellion originated there and it was the rebel headquarters and during the decisive battle there the golems (who we know are good at mass destruction) destroyed most parts of dust town, And there is a difference between conscripting people to become golems and kill rebels. Caspoi (talk) 17:55, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
I thought we were talking about Bhelen's posthumous rebellion. But hey banning the casteless from 95% of the city, even further limiting their chance to find a job and eek out a living. But what does it matter how poorly he treats people, so long as he deserves the throne right.

- (talk) 22:16, November 9, 2014 (UTC)

I was talking about the rebellion in the epilogue. It is not as if though he destroyed dusttown as a victory celebration. And while I dislike the fact that he prohibits them from walking in the commons they would hardly find work there anyway, what most casteless there do is either thieving or blackmailing so he has his reasons. At any rate it is not as if though Bhelen treats everyone wonderfully. Caspoi (talk) 13:57, November 10, 2014 (UTC)
EDIT: What I mean to say is what most casteless walking the commons do is thieving and blackmailing, I am not saying that all casteless are scum, but that it is mostly those who emerge from dusttown (further giving casteless a bad impression I dare say).

Yes we all agree Bhelen is a D **** but he is also better for Orzammar than Harrowmont what I do is help Harrowmont through out so the people know all of Bhelen's sins then I choose Bhelen as king every time

I always side with Caradin to destroy the Anvil, the price is too much and knowing Bhelen he will sentence Half of Orzammar to become Golem, not going to give him that much power. Sage of Six Minds (talk) 18:23, November 9 , 2014 (UTC)
Yes, the greatest problem I. have against Bhelen is the fact that he asks us to cheat and lie for him. If it had been so simple as to choose which to be king it might be different but as it is I have to stoop to his standards if I am to support him. And first supporting Harrowmont and then backstab him because you know in hindsight that he will be a worse king is not a lot better. Caspoi (talk) 18:42, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
I had no idea, that was the decision I made in my first play through, it turned out to me the right choice during the epilogue, I originally just wanted to see if it could be possible, and I kinda respected Bhelen drive and desire for the throne of course when I played the Dwaven Noble Origin, I was really pissed cause of how Bhelen betrayed his brother. If I had played the full game as the Dwaven Noble I would have sided with Harrowmont. But it turns out I only needed to finish the Origin's story for the Throphy. Sage of Six Minds (talk) 21:11, November 9, 2014 (UTC)
Bhelen certainly gives the best epilogue, that I will not argue (although it is not necessarily as good as some may think if you ask me). The thing is that I think that Harrowmont deserve the throne. Not only because he is the more honest of the two but also because I believe that the late king Endrim made Harrowmont swear that he would let Bhelen succeed him. Caspoi (talk) 22:06, November 9, 2014 (UTC)